PPC Chat Streamcap – Working Together – PPC & SEO

This week Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro) came up with an compelling question set titled “Working Together – PPC & SEO.” The following is the transcribed Streamcap from the live chat:

Q1: How much should a PPC specialist know about SEO?

  • It’s our responsibility to know basics & how we can help co-workers/clients. No need for nitty gritty though. – Aaron Levy (@bigalittlea)
  • Robots.txt for landing page impact on SEO, how to measure the impact of PPC conversions on SEO conversions in GA. Beyond that, the seo basics will suffice. – Harris Neifield (@HarrisNeifield)
  • It could depend on whether they’re allowed to make separate landing pages, or if they’re forced to use current ones. – Paul Kragthorpe (@PaulKragthorpe)
  • As much as possible. Have to balance work responsibilities. – Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
  • I feel like, just as much as PPC. – Prentice Parton (@JohnnyScoots)
  • Its important to know how se’s work in terms of reading and crawling content. With that said, its better to know more of inbound marketing across all digital channels. – Chris Kostecki (@chriskos)
  • PC specialists need to know enough SEO to communicate/prioritize — failing to collaborate is a huge missed opp! – Emily Las (@emlas)
  • IMO the more you know on top of PPC the more successful you will be at having a larger impact for the business. – Jessica Cameron Ruud (@Camruud)
  • I’m a firm believer that Search Marketers should know as much about all disciplines of SEM as possible. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
  • Enough to know when it’s appropriate to bring in an SEO specialist. – Nicole Mintiens (@Tregesy)
  • I would say my experience as an SEO has definitely helped, knowledge of SEO basics especially on-page, crawling is important. – Andrew Baker (@AndrewBaker72)
  • I’m with Luke Alley – as much as possible. The lines are always blurring, and opportunity can be found. – Rick Galan (@RickGalan)
  • Important to know SEO terminology and general trends in the industry. – Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro)
  • Common thread between PPC & SEO is SEARCH. PPC’ers who know search fundamentals are top notch. – Emily Las
  • Basic SEO knowledge is required, e.g. to judge SERPs on important/relevant search queries. – Bart Schuijt (@BartSchuijt)
  • A solid knowledge of SEO. Especially when analyzing first click/ last click revenue attribution. They work hand in hand. – Rod (@rodsblog)
  • I will say, however, that I don’t think one can be great at PPC AND SEO – You choose to be a specialist and focus on one area IMHO. – Matt Umbro
  • Most important thing Landing Page Optimization …meta tags, meta keywords etc to improve QS. – Manoj Pandey (@_MAN0J)
  • They should be able to speak to it, know the high level basics, but also be able to measure the impact of each on the other. – Brittany Baeslack (@BaeslaBr)
  • As much as they’re forced to know. 😀 No, seriously, all the basics. Much xover with good landing page elements. – Theresa Zook (@I_Marketer)
  • Also, a PPC marketer should understand the differences between status codes, URL structure, meta info, etcetera. – Bart Schuijt
    • Agreed, especially the noindex meta tag! – Matt Umbro
  • I’ve dabbled in SEO in the past so I can answer basic/slightly intermediate Qs, but anything more I consult with SEO specialist. – Matt Umbro
  • Also, learning SEO, CRO, Social and related will keep you from “burn out”. – James Svoboda
  • Balancing both channels now, & they’re very different. Luckily ppc is rockin so I can focus on updating site architecture etc. – Chris Kostecki
  • Should at least know the basics, but should also have an understanding of/be able to measure the impact on each other. – Brittany Baeslack
  • As much as possible. Being a competent SEO will make you a better PPCer and vise versa as so many skills crossover. – Shaun Causer (@SEMantiks)
  • If you can answer some of their SEO questions, it definitely adds to your credibility as a search professional. – Rod
  • Don’t necessarily know if it’s good to know as much as possible about SEO (or other services for that matter). Keep updated on SEO news, but don’t take away from your PPC learning experience. – Matt Umbro
    • Could not agree more– specializing in one is best. Then collaborate. – Emily Las
  • I think as a ppc’er, knowing seo in-depth makes one a better paid search marketer. Specialization is good, but a thorough understanding and ability to spot opps for you in SEO & help SEO = winning strategy. – James Zolman (@jameszol)
    • I agree in terms of in-depth knowledge, but PPC/SEO are so dynamic, being both is not realistic for many! – Emily Las
    • Agreed, and definitely important to keep updated on latest news and practices, but don’t want to take away from PPC. – Matt Umbro
    • May not ‘take away from ppc’ but there is the opportunity cost of time when learning one over the other. – Nicole Mintiens
      • I believe there’s little opportunity cost to the time trade-off…they overlap a lot more than meets the eye. – James Zolman
  • I don’t pretend to know #seo. I consult w/experts when I get questions. It changes faster than #ppc. I specialize but stay informed. – Lisa Sanner (@LisaSanner)
  • Followup, When you get to a point where you are comfortable with PPC, that might be the time to seek a new challenge. – James Svoboda
  • I’m more in your camp. Specialization is good, but diversity of knowledge is also important. – Robert Brady (@robert_brady)
  • It makes sense to know how natural and paid search traffic effect your business, they are not in a void. – Chris Kostecki

Q2: For those working in agencies with both PPC and SEO services, how do these teams interact (if at all)?

  • SEO takes KW research, KW ROI, and Ad copy from PPC and implements into SEO. – Luke Alley
  • Yes, @SEERInteractive the PPC & SEO teams work together on meta data, keyword research and on just about anything. – Harris Neifield
  • In 3 words: Master Keyword List. This has always lied at core of in-house #ppc & #seo relationship for me. – Emily Las
  • Closely, especially when digging deep into reporting data. Also, shared keyword research & spotting where PPC can plug the gaps. – Rod
  • Share important KW insights, top landing pages, potential tracking issues, top products for ROI, Robot block LPs. – Rachel Cassidy (@RachelCassidy85)
  • We have some hybrid acct managers that do both, we have some that specialize in each. Interact A LOT when we manage both. – Lisa Sanner
  • Sharing keyword data between teams is vital. High-ROI PPC terms should be SEO targets. – Robert Brady
  • We’re within shouting distance of each other. Helps to quickly sort out issues when there is overlap. – Nicole Mintiens
  • I work w/ #SEO agencies on client projects so regular meetings and reporting is essential. We work to a joint marketing strategy. – Andrew Baker
  • Client manager needs to know both to manage these campaigns and set direction. – James Svoboda
  • Past agency life… Collaboration revolves around each account’s objectives and how you are driving results. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • I work w/ #SEO agencies on client projects so regular meetings and reporting is essential. We work to a joint marketing strategy. With the rise in (not provided) organic data, SEO will work more w/ PPC managers for their KW research IMO. – Andrew Baker
  • Not only sharing KWs, but also links, knowing what is linking in to can help with display and target ideas. – Chris Kostecki
  • Many agencies struggle with PPC/SEO integration. Different skill sets & diff workflow outside of KW research. Anyone see this? – Emily Las
    • Yes. very different, in ppc everything is in control, in seo, need to work across teams to execute. – Chris Kostecki
    • Yes! Every time I do an SEO and/or PPC audit on a campaign from another agency. – James Svoboda
    • Absolutely. It’s like that here. I also find that more ppc’ers know about #SEO than SEO’s know about PPC. – Cassie Allinger (@_CassieLee_)
  • PPC team can provide accurate keywords for optimisation based on conversions, not just search volume which is invaluable. – Shaun Causer
  • (not provided) is going to make collaboration even more important for SEO’s. – James Svoboda

Q3: Talk about your strategy for adding top searched organic keywords (from Analytics) to your PPC campaigns? Do you use site search reports to add new PPC keywords?

  • Generally peruse analytics at launch of the account, then every 6 months or so. Not a lot of new data with shorter term stuff. – Aaron Levy
  • A little thing called “Low Search Volume” can really mess up perfectly good organic keyword data. – James Svoboda
  • Absolutely, but use caution – they’re already at your site. – Aaron Levy
  • If an organic keyword is driving traffic but not converting – test a unique landing page via PPC. Message match & relevancy. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • When appropriate, yes. It’s valuable consumer information. – Cassie Allinger
  • If you are not collaborating you are missing out strategically. Preventing intrusion from competitors limits leach. – Ira Kates (@IraKates)
  • Site search is an important signal, you can shorten the path if they are searching for the same content off site. – Chris Kostecki
  • Set up new ad groups & possibly campaigns (budget control) for analytics additions to existing campaigns, however this is rare because most high volume words found via analytics are added at campaign launch. – Harris Neifield
  • I’ll use organic search data as a source for new PPC campaigns and PPC data to determine SEO focus. – Bart Schuijt
  • Segregation based on user intent usually and add to account accordingly. Informational queries can pepper organic traffic. – Shaun Causer
  • Always great when visitors are searching for product names and/or sku numbers – make great PPC keywords. – Matt Umbro
  • Site Search reports are amazing for researching Sitelinks! They are essentially site navigation insights after all. – Emily Las
  • Establish the first page bid estimate by setting live in test campaign with small budget. Then make accurate cost projections. – Rod
  • Most of my keyword research has gone the other way lately. PPC keywords used for SEO. – Dennis Petretti (@Denetti)
  • You can use the new SEO report in GA v5 (data linked from GWMT) for search query impressions as well as CTRs. – Andrew Baker
  • Its hard to see line btwn ppc, analytics, seo, & social – if u want to convert traffic u need to know where ur site stands. – Chris Kostecki

Q4: Can effective PPC text ads help with SEO copyrighting (both content and code)? Why or why not?

  • Hell yes! Insights via: Display URLs, KW in Headlines, Positive CTAs in Description, Conv. by LP & KW, I could go on and on. – James Svoboda
  • Yes, use successful value props in page meta descriptions so they will be seen in organic results, headlines in title tags. – Chris Kostecki
  • Why not test headlines and CTAs for “organic” pages and use winners? That’s what I say. – Robert Brady
  • Yes! Leverage effective PPC messaging in SEO descriptions (ie: price focused, Value Propositions, etc) and on-site copy. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • PPC ads probably wouldn’t be very effective for seo copywriting due to character limits and punctuation. general themes, maybe. – Harris Neifield
  • Absolutely, without question, positively YES. Because those are tested and proven messages. Would be crazy not to take advantage. – Theresa Zook
  • Of course. Meta Descriptions effectively are just a 160+ character AdWords headline. – Shaun Causer
  • The text of a PPC ads looks a lot like meta descriptions to me. – Dennis Petretti
  • Extended headline in ad is great way to test potential organic title tags. – Matt Umbro
  • Sure, within reason. Test CTA’s & value props to see what resonates with the customer. – Aaron Levy
  • Yes. It is so easy to test. We can move quicker than just about anyone else. – Richard Fergie (@RichardFergie)
  • By seo copywriting, i mean user content. for meta data, title tags, h1, h2 … yes they can be good. – Harris Neifield
  • PPC is message testing at its finest. CTA, tone, benefits, headlines, so many things. I don’t know how the answer could be ‘No.’ – Lisa Sanner
  • SEO needs to take advantage of PPC data when it comes to ad copy. PPC is your real-time focus group. – Emily Las
  • Google doesn’t always pull your meta description though, especially now we have mark-up at Schema.org – Andrew Baker

Q5: Do you up sell SEO to PPC clients? If so, what are the reasons you give to clients for trying SEO?

  • Yep. Especially here at an agency. Both have their strengths. Among others, SEO has depth, PPC has reach. – Luke Alley
  • Yes! Especially if clients have “maxed out” on PPC and are looking to continue to broaden their reach. – Matt Umbro
  • Some users just don’t click ads. Period! So a new audience also more SERP real estate the better, less competition. – Andrew Baker
  • Absolutely! SEO offers long term value, whereas PPC does not. The two work as a team. – Cassie Allinger
    • Take exception to idea that PPC doesn’t offer “long-term value.” It does, especially in fields w/many repeat buyers. – Theresa Zook
    • Also over time my accounts improve more and more. – Luke Alley
  • Often. PPC is like heroine to clients, once then get some, they usually want more of that “ROI High”. – James Svoboda
  • We certainly try. 🙂 I show them our ad spend. That gets their attn. Often are “doing it” in-house, thinking it’s good enough. – Lisa Sanner
  • Reverse: SEO optimization comes with website builds for clients. PPC is optional. – Nicole Mintiens
  • PPC is the easier sell b/c we can show immediate results. when clients ask “what else can we be doing,” intro SEO. – Janine Monico (@JanineSEM)
  • Yes. To improve quality of landing pages, and to be proactive on high spend/ low converting PPC terms. – Rod
  • Yes. If they ever decide to “Turn off” their PPC (don’t know why), that’s it, they get no more benefit from it. SEO keeps going. – Paul Kragthorpe
  • Of course, bringing SEO into the mix (& in the hands of specialists) will only make PPC stronger. – Emily Las
  • Don’t have your eggs all in one basket. What happens if your AdWords account is suspended or SEO is hit by Panda. – Andrew Baker
  • Yes. Anywhere up to 90% of people don’t click ads & as PPCers we know just which KWs to target to grow traffic & conv. – Shaun Causer
  • If necessary, yes! When competition increases for example. Or just by checking SERPs manually for important kws. – Bart Schuijt
  • Imp thing for clients to “get” is–no hard-and-fast line between them–they support each other. – Theresa Zook

Q6: What is your best analogy when comparing PPC and SEO?

  • PPC is like signing a free agent where SEO is building up your farm system. – Matt Umbro
  • PPC is like paying rent while SEO is like paying off a mortgage. – Shaad Hamid (@ShaadHamid)
  • Got to be SEO is a marathon, PPC is a sprint! – Rod
  • PPC = Bret Favre, SEO = Tim Tebow – Paul Kragthorpe
  • They’re apples & oranges–but you need them both to make the fruit salad of success. – Theresa Zook
  • PPC is the running game, grinding all day, SEO is the Pass, takes a lot to setup and go right, but payoff can be good. – Chris Kostecki
  • PPC = results now, SEO = results later. – David Kyle (@DavidKyle)
  • PPC = instant gratification. Winning the lottery! While SEO = long-term results. Earning interest on your initial investment. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • PPC is like driving 236 km/h. SEO is about 22 km/h. – Bart Schuijt
  • PPC = Pay in cash, SEO = Throw it on the credit card. – Cassie Alinger
  • SEO/PPC analogies…. The classic I use is Own vs. Rent a house. But you need to keep that rental biz evergreen! – Emily Las
  • PPC is paying for my kids college tuition when they are 18, SEO is teaching them early to earn scholarships & grants. – James Svoboda
  • PPC=hockey (fast paced,quick return) SEO=golf (slow paced, every shot counts) Similar tactics (hit w// sticks) & practitioners (me). – Aaron Levy
  • SEO builds the foundation, PPC reinforces it. – Stephanie Cockerl (@StephCockerl)
  • The PPC early bird gets the worm, but slow and steady SEO wins the race. – Shaun Causer
  • SEO is the convenience of your store location & PPC is the billboard that drives more customers there. – Emily Las


More PPCChats

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About the Streamcap Guru

This is a guest post by Paul Kragthorpe; SEM Manager at WebRanking in Minneapolis, #PPCChat Streamcap Grabber, SEO Blog Contributor “¦ when there’s something worth bloggin, Tweet me @PaulKragthorpe, and Google Plus.

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