PPC Chat Streamcap – Understanding B2B & Ecommerce Campaigns

Hello again PPCChatters!

This week, Luke Alley (@LukeAlley) suggested the topic of “Understanding B2B & Ecommerce Pay-Per-Click Campaigns” and our host Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro) came up with a good set of questions. The following is the transcribed Streamcap from the live chat.

Q1: Do you find your keyword QS’s differing dramatically between B2B & Ecommerce campaigns? If so, what do you believe are the reasons?

  • Don’t really notice a”difference” but building QS is often harder in B2B campaigns due to high competition, low volume, etc. “harder” isn’t even the right word – more time intensive is a more apt description – John Lee (@John_A_Lee)
  • Not a huge difference Ecommerce is generally a bit better due to higher CTR’s than B2B. – Harris Neifield (@HarrisNeifield)
  • I have seen the QS differentiate based upon client, but no correlation to market. – Chris Kostecki (@Chriskos) +
  • Not a huge difference but as @John_A_Lee and @HarrisNeifield said, volume plays a roll. – Justin Freid (@Justin_Freid)
  • Yes, low CTRs in B2B I believe have been the reason in the past for low QS. – Luke Alley (@LukeAlley)
  • No noticeable difference in QS, but targeting can be due to Low Search Volume filter on longer tail converting Ecom keywords. – James Svoboda (@Realicity)
  • Definitely easier to target B2C on search. B2B & search has been more to support other penetration strategies. – Chris Kostecki
    • I think this is the key. – Luke Alley
    • Larger Volume of B2C Searchers. – James Svoboda
  • We are a B2B Ecomm site, so right up my alley! My SQs are often long tail and include qualifiers such as “price” “reviews” etc. – Jessica Cameron Ruud (@Camruud) +
  • Generally less searched terms serving highly niche audiences tend to net lower Qs’s.I believe the more popular the term the higher the QS. – Matt Umbro
  • Important to set expectations on any level but especially ecommerce. Price, quality, brand, etc. High QS means nothing w/out the sale. – Amy Hoffman (@Hoffman8)
  • Niche terms don’t get searched a whole ton, yet their CPCs can be higher. – Matt Umbro (@Matt_Umbro) ++
    • Bigger Bang for the buck. – Chris Kostecki
    • Due Low Search volume filters & need BM. – James Svoboda
  • At an agency B2B was always much tougher since had to learn much more about the industry, finer points to differentiate from others. – Chris Kostecki
    • Best to align your campaigns with the B2B buying cycle specific to that industry. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • I find higher QS for e-com easier to achieve as account structure is more defined, for example buying cycle ad groups. – SEMantiks (@SEMantiks)
  • I think the majority of B2B searches are researching, so they are less inclined to click on ads (we are more salesy). – Luke Alley
    • Interesting point – also need to consider that B2B typically involves a MUCH longer sales cycle. – John Lee ++
      • You bring up an interesting point regarding the sales cycle, the next 2 questions have to do with this process. – Matt Umbro
      • And often multiple buyers in that long buying cycle. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
      • And different players, the one doing the searching may not be the one making the biz decisions. – Chris Kostecki
  • CTR for B2B terms is sometimes lower. Low QS is a problem for every1 so no competitive disadvantage. problem if ads aren’t shown. – Martin Röttgerding (@bloomarty)
  • B2C = more time to windows shop. – James Svoboda

Q2: In lead generation campaigns with long sales cycles, how do you ensure leads (and sales) are tracked?

  • I’ve harped on it many times before but your clients must share leads with you and keep you involved in the sales cycle! – Matt Umbro
  • Plead, beg w/sales VP that it is worth it. – Lisa Sanner (@LisaSanner)
  • You need a process or tool that can help you track offline conversions or assign unique identifier. Need sales info from client. – Justin Freid
  • It’s important to have the client on board. We depend on them to help us track leads through the cycle. – Amy Hoffman
  • Integration or extraction of lead status from your sales CRM helps determine value along the sales cycle for lead gen campaigns. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • Client feedback is good. Understanding attribution is good. Lead tracking in Salesforce, etc. is good. – John Lee
  • If a company is spending thousands of dollars, they better want to track things properly! – Justin Freid
  • It works out to their benefit to help us because we can adjust goal CPLs, etc. as necessary to generate max leads at max profit. – Amy Hoffman
  • Beyond aggregate numbers, you need a central place to track all touchpoints. – Chris Kostecki +
  • I ask all clients if I can be CC’d on their form submissions. If so I create a spreadsheet at the end of the month with all leads. – Matt Umbro ++
    • Great idea. What do you do after that to continue tracking? – Luke Alley
      • I keep all leads in the monthly report and continually ask what is happening to them, some clients know and some dont. – Matt Umbro +
    • Saves us in the long run by giving us proof that we are bring in leads. – Matt Umbro
  • Some leads can be untrackable via web analytics. Get buy-in from the client’s sales team. If they see value you’ll be fine. – Harris Neifield
  • Sometimes you just need to show clients that you can generate leads via search, then they will trust you more with lead data. – James Svoboda
  • It will be interesting to see what insight the new GA Multi-Channel Funnels offer for tracking. – Andrew Baker (@SEOEdinburgh)
    • It will be interesting to see what insight the new GA Multi-Channel Funnels offer for tracking. – Matt Umbro
  • Many in business claim that if a business endeavor is not tracked, or trackable, it is not worth doing. – Josh Bachynski (@joshbachynski)
  • Had client, didn’t have tracking. Said our leads were worst,they wouldn’t call them. We turned off, their commi$$ions vanished. – Lisa Sanner +
  • Filter all leads to a landing page or through a link service like bit.ly, obviously. – Josh Bachynski
  • Ultimately, lead tracking software needs to be in play – buy SalesForce or build your own database system. – John Lee ++
  • Conversion proxies help… in theory: use a multi point attribution model and figure out weights with multivariate regression. – Martin Röttgerding
  • Analytics tools that track click attribution are a must. I use Clicktale & Woopra. – SEMantiks

Q3: How involved do you become with helping clients nurture PPC leads and/or facilitate more purchases once a sale has occurred?

  • One word: Email. Get them into an email program. – Melissa Mackey (@Mel66) +
    • I should qualify that we offer email marketing as part of our digital suite. – Melissa Mackey
  • We offer ourselves as a resource to talk through problems and opportunities, but in the end it is client’s responsibility. – John Lee
    • I agree w/ John Lee it’s the client’s responsibility to nurture those leads. – Cassy (@imcassy)
      • In theory, yes, but at the end of the day anything you can do to show value & prove your worth is key. – Matt Umbro +
      • Some don’t know how to. # dilemma – James Svoboda +
        • we offer call tracking w/ recording options – they can use that transparency to see where improvements can be made. – Cassy
  • Now this question goes above and beyond what we as PPC managers need to be accountable for, but how can we add value? – Matt Umbro
  • In other words, I bring them the leads and then point them in the right direction. – John Lee
  • Conversions mean everything – w/o conversions the best PPC campaign is useless, thus good design and call to actions help. – Josh Bachynski
  • Depends on campaign budget. If small then it is not worked in. If large, then we have time to consult and assess processes. – James Svoboda
  • We look at the lead’s needs, demographics, time of day, geography, etc. to see if we can expand on current target market. – Amy Hoffman +
  • Not much at all. Lead nurturing is specialty just like PPC. Theres definite strategies, I’m not equipped. I recommend vendors. – Lisa Sanner +
  • As far as nurturing current leads we typically stay out of that. – Amy Hoffman
  • Another aspect – most of this “above and beyond” work needs to happen at beginning of relationship. Otherwise what’s the point? – John Lee
  • You can use many per click instead of one per click attribution. Adjusts PPC to get the higher value of repeat business. – Harris Neifield
  • I stay focused on my side of the biz, can’t speak for a client’s svc, peeps, etc. Might suggestion/observation, but that’s it. – Chris Kostecki
  • By at least following up with client on “lead nurturing”, even if you’re not great at it, you show the client you care. – Luke Alley ++
  • We work to bring in qualified (and ONLY) qualified leads that are ready to buy but once signed up the client should seal the deal. – Amy Hoffman
    • I agree the client should seal the deal but if you can help them make path easier they will get more addicted to search. – David Beltramini (@dbeltramini)
  • Said it b4, will say it again: PPC builds on a business’ strengths, on the flipside it will highlight weak points. – Chris Kostecki +
  • We often make recommendations, as our client’s success is in our best interest, too. Still, it’s mainly the client’s job. – Martin Röttgerding

Q4: Often times landing pages are created for B2B campaigns. Do you ever create LPs for ecomm campaigns?

  • I wouldn’t be against helping ‘nurture’ but I’m no salesperson, so it would likely be counterproductive. – Amy Hoffman
  • We provide consultation on product/category pages for ecommerce, yes. But that is usually site-level, not one-off pages. – John Lee
  • Sometimes. Depends on Budget and Quality of available product categories and pages. – James Svoboda
  • Yes, with special offers, or to speak to demographics, target product sub categories, etc..views on lp value have been shifting. – Chris Kostecki
  • We usually give pointers for landing pages and do some modifications. – Martin Röttgerding
  • Landing pages are useful for both B2B and B2C. – Jeremy Brown (@JBGuru)
  • Any examples of GREAT ecommerce landing pages?
  • Ecommerce LPs? Absolutely! Stripped navigation on product pages, special offers, cross-sells, up-sells, only limited by own creativity. – Lisa Sanner ++
  • Yes! Especially for more general terms that are higher in the buying process. Focus on the intent behind the SQ. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
  • Ecommerce sites seem to be built around the idea of specific product pages already. What do you do different? – Luke Alley
    • It is all about location of page elements, sales copy , etc. – John Lee
  • Sometimes. Split testing ads with different LPs help better understand the user’s intent. – Nikhil Inamdar (@NikhilInamdar) +
  • Always try to make recommendations for website mostly fit into current ecommerce website rather than new LPs. Hi everyone by the way. – James Hume (@zerospin)
  • Yes – informative lp’s since often b2b has a long sales cycle so the goal on the LP’s is engagement (whitepaper, podcasts, etc). – Harris Neifield
  • I test sending phrase/exact kw (pink striped flask) directly to the product vs. a product category for broad kw (flasks). – Amy Hoffman
  • Provide our clients with a template/format to use for their e-comm LPs. # of templates depends on how many products client offer. – Justin Freid
  • I’m lucky in that I sometimes work with a web developer on projects so PPC goes hand in hand with LPO/CRO. – Andrew Baker
  • The ability to build custom l-pages for Ecommerce depends largely on budget & # of products. – Amy Hoffman +
    • Ecommerce CMS Platform too. – James Svoboda
  • Landing page vs non-landing page doesn’t matter (for b2b or b2c) – how well does the page sell / can be tracked, all that matters. – Josh Bachynski
  • If you have a discount, test how you say it – $ off vs % off. Sometimes makes a big difference. – Lisa Sanner
  • Those who’ve taken NAV off their ecommerce page, what have the results been like? – Luke Alley
    • I would think people still want to shop around on an ecommerce page, so no nav risks high bounce rates. – Luke Alley
      • I’m wary of removing nav from ecommerce sites, too, for that very reason. – John Lee +
    • It concerns me to completely strip navigation b/c even if they like the product they may want to see what else you have thoughts? – Amy Hoffman
      • I agree with the completely stripped nav. On ecommerce where the intent is to buy, no nav feels forced. – Jessica Cameron Ruud
        • Exactly and as a consumer – I’m frustrated when I feel cornered on an e-comm site, leadgen makes sense though. – Amy Hoffman +
    • Navigation can be important. Home pages can even outperform specific landing pages if they are designed well. – Jeremy Brown
    • Not having an “escape hatch” is kind of spammy, i would rather lose the sale then lose the trust. – Chris Kostecki +
    • Test! Test! Test! Measure! Measure! Measure! – James Svoboda +++
  • Not having an LP lowers convRate and therefore KWs value for your business. Lower value translates into lower bids, not termination. – Martin Röttgerding
  • IMO, a good sales website should sell well no matter where you send clicks to, info site needs LP (i.e., to be a sales site). – Josh Bachynski
  • As a follow up, will you not bid on certain KW’s because you don’t have a specific LP? Especially when you consider the potential ROAS?– Matt Umbro
    • Nope. We built a dynamic LP utility that removes that as a variable. Plug & play headline variation, body copy variation and image variation based on keywords. – John Lee
      • Is that an internal tool for dynamic LPs or a vendor product? – Jeremy Brown
        • Internal. – John Lee
    • Well, if the KW isn’t going to convert on your current LP, cut the wasted spend if you can’t develop a LP. – Jessica Cameron Ruud +
      • I guess my point is just because you don’t have the best LP does that mean you shouldn’t bid on the KW especially when you don’t have the ability to influence the client’s site? – Matt Umbro
    • If the ROAS isnt there, then the kws shouldnt be (unless they are supporting other terms). – Chris Kostecki ++++
    • Follow-up – Absolutely! If no quality LP’s, then focus building for what can convert until you can get some. – James Svoboda
    • No. If ConvRate is lower I will bid lower. – Martin Röttgerding

Q5: In B2B campaigns w/ specialized terms & audiences, what resources do you use to ensure text ads & LPs are accurate & effective?

  • 1st and foremost – the client. Beyond that, research the web, research competitors, etc. – John Lee ++
  • CLIENTS, CLIENTS & CLIENTS. – Harris Neifield
  • Client is the BEST resource for understanding business/customers, etc, imho. – John Lee
    • I couldn’t agree more, rely heavily on the client. Sales can be better than marketing in terms of knowing the customer. – Harris Neifield +
  • I’ve seen pared down navigation not totally stripped work well. Depends on breadth of # of categories/pdts. – Lisa Sanner
  • At my previous company we worked with many IT related clients. I would ask our IT Director for what he would want to see. – Matt Umbro
  • Client, website, Google, Wikipedia (often useful), competitors’ sites, competitors’ ads, etc. – Jeremy Brown +
  • While the client is a strong indicator, also researching about the industry (wikipedia) and competition can also help. – Chris Kostecki
  • May be a pain, but manually pulling up LP’s next to Ads tab in editor and visually comparing works wonders. – James Svoboda +
  • Exactly. client knows their business, we know marketing. work together! – Cassy +
  • The client first, then post-launch: the data. – Amy Hoffman
  • I find that many clients don’t fully understand the relationship between keyword versions, intent, conversions and landing pages. – James Svoboda
    • Agreed. But it is our job to download their knowledge and transform it into useful PPC info. – John Lee
      • Very True. I see myself as the bridge between clients and keywords, and the conversion island. – James Svoboda
        • Oooh… I like it. “The Conversion Island.” Maybe we can make our own PPC themed reality show? – John Lee +
          • One challenge could be to see who gets the CPA under $20 first. – Matt Umbro
    • Thats exactly why I think following up with data analysis is important immediately after launch (but that seems obvious). – Amy Hoffman
  • IA’s do usability surveys/testing, should we as PPCers be doing this? – Matt Umbro +
    • Testing – yes. Surveys – have tried in the past, but it is quite the undertaking if you don’t know what you’re doing. – John Lee +
  • Not sure if I’ve seen SEO on this list yet. – Lisa Sanner
  • After passing client inspection, (it’s elementary but) u can find optimization opportunities through CTR, Conversion Rates, QS, etc. – Amy Hoffman
  • Absolutely we should be doing usability testing on LP’s, it’s a big part of optimizing PPC traffic. – Harris Neifield
    • I’m not so much speaking about usability testing, but asking current clients of our clients for their input. – Matt Umbro
  • Competitor research. What might be a regular ‘industry term’ may be known by customers as something else. – SEMantiks

Q6: Has demographic/audience targeting in Facebook and LinkedIn improved your B2B/ecomm conversion rates? 1 so more than the other?

  • FB and LI have been god-sends for B2B PPC. When targeted properly, conversion rates have been higher. – John Lee
    • Can you explain some of your ideas with B2B targeting on Facebook and LinkedIn? – Matt Umbro
      • FB – all about interests of target market (now occupation, too). Use the same B2B LPs. Keep ads fresh. Not anything magical. – John Lee
      • LI – target job types. This more than anything has worked to my advantage. Also, keep ads fresh. – John Lee +
  • Yes and No. Depends on finding an audience for each. Sometimes you just can’t beat search. Also, Ad Fatigue can kill Social PPC Ads, where search can be evergreen… for a while. – James Svoboda
    • Ad fatigue sucks, but is our reality. – John Lee
  • Yes, use the insights of every partner. – Harris Neifield
  • Sometimes. It can be hard to get your ads shown when you’re using very restrictive demo targeting on LinkedIn. – Harris Neifield
  • Images play a huge role in FB ads. A bit of creativity with images can bring in quality traffic. – Nikhil Inamdar +

More PPCChats

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About the Author

James Svoboda is a Pay Per Click Consultant at WebRankingThis is a guest post by James Svoboda, managing partner at WebRanking SEO and PPC agency in Portland, an infrequent blogger, Sphinn Editor, SEM content hound, and Co-Founder of the Minnesota Search Engine Marketing Association.

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2 Responses to PPC Chat Streamcap – Understanding B2B & Ecommerce Campaigns

  1. […] more from the original source: PPC Chat Streamcap – Understanding B2B & Ecommerce Pay Per Click … Filed under Pay per click advertising, Search Engine Marketing, UK Click here to cancel […]

  2. […] Umbro published a ‘Streamcap’ of their PPC chat on Twitter on the topic of “Understanding B2B & ECommerce Pay-Per-Click Campaigns“.  PPC aficionados from all over tweeted their responses to the group interview questions, […]

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